Talk:Outer Heaven
nazism is outer heaven a nazi organization?it has a nazi symbol on the skull.11:40, 22 February 2009 (UTC)The x reaper :The Swastika is not a Nazi symbol, it is merely a symbol the Nazi's stole and used. The symbol is connected to many religions (including Hinduism and Buddhism). You can read more about it here. --Fantomas 17:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC) ::i know bout it being religious, but i just noticed it is the wrong way around.--21:09, 26 February 2009 (UTC)The x reaper :::Technically, the way it's facing on the Outer Heaven symbol is the "right way round" and the way the Nazi's used it (facing to the right) is the wrong way round. Although both versions have been used for religious symbolism, the right facing way has been considered by many modern scholars as the "evil swastika" and I believe it is no longer used like that in religions. --Fantomas 22:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC) MAJIN or BAN(Final in English) is the symbol of enlightenment and has been around for 100's of years, educate yourself self please before jumping to conclusions and putting up something like this :I mentioned the issue on the Trivia section, and I also made sure to note that, upon further inspection, the symbol that initially appeared on the forehead of the Skull on the logo was actually a Majin and not a Swatstika at first sight. I also thought it would be interesting to note that the whole issue may have been early foreshadowing about how Outer Heaven was not as bad as originally thought (I mean, if Hideo Kojima wanted something to liken it to the Nazis, don't you think that he would have used the actual logo of the Nazis instead of it's mirror counterpart, and arguably, the origin of the symbol Majin.) Weedle McHairybug 04:06, December 5, 2009 (UTC) :But can't we add a line that says it could mean something about Big Boss' fall from grace? I mean, the symbol was once a symbol of good, but now is used to symbolize evil. Similarly, Naked Snake was once good, but later turned "evil" (as some would put it. Or... do you think never ending war isn't as bad as most people make it out to be?) That "it could be an early foreshadowing that Outer Heaven wasn't as as evil as initially believed" line is frustrating. -John- 14:28, June 17. 2010 (ETC) ::Well, I would say that "evil" isn't really the right word anyway. But both viewpoints seem valid. --Bluerock 18:49, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::That's why I put "evil" in quotation marks. But thank you. -John- 14:54. June 17. 2010 (ETC) :I actually meant the wording in the article. --Bluerock 19:41, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::On a related note, if Kojima were ever to update the Outer Heaven logo, I doubt it would even include the swastika. It's design can probably be attributed to the illustrator of the MSX Metal Gear manual. --Bluerock 17:59, June 21, 2010 (UTC) NATO bombing Why would NATO bomb Outer Heaven if it had already self-destructed? Has the self-destruction been retconned from ever happening, as there is no mention at all in the MGS4 database? Instead it says that the supposed "earthquake" (resulting from the explosion at the end of the game) was actually caused by the bombing and not any sort of self-destruct. --Bluerock 14:25, June 5, 2010 (UTC) Well Outer Heaven was a whole nation and not just that fortress, perhaps the fortress self destructed and the rest of Outer Heaven (the nation) was bombed by NATO. Big Boss' Dream Okay, this Wiki article is getting on my nerves. It was explicitly stated that Big Boss' dream of Outer Heaven was to create constant warfare, a world where "soldiers will always have a place." Liquid Ocelot himself said that his goal was to create world chaos, as that was the perfect world Big Boss envisioned. Otacon later explained that Naomi and Sunny's FOXALIVE virus prevented that. So why does, at the end of the section for Liquid Ocelot's Outer Heaven Mother Company, state that "After the destruction of the Patriots's AI, Big Boss's dreams of Outer Heaven had, in effect, finally come to be"? The goal of Outer Heaven wasn't to stop the Patriots, but to create world chaos. The Patriots was simply in the way. THAT'S why he wanted to stop the Patriots. But there was no world chaos at the end of MGS4, so Big Boss dream didn't "came to be" at all! -John- 14:28, June 17. 2010 (ETC) :If he wanted world chaos, why didn't he pull a Coldman, and actually THREATEN to cause a Nuclear War (as in, send a broadcasted televised speech hacked into their mainframes stating he is going to launch a nuke to every continent to start a Nuclear War. Or heck, have one of his scientists hack the mainframes with Nuclear Missiles) It's evident that The Patriots truly weren't actually going to disarm Nuclear Weapons, as evidenced with Shadow Moses and the fact that Arsenal Gear was completely armed with Nukes. Heck, what The Patriots did in Metal Gear Solid 4 was far closer to the whole Global Chaos issue than what Big Boss ever could come up to. Weedle McHairybug 18:43, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::You are somewhat right, John. I think his initial "dream" was simply that soldiers no longer be used and discarded as political tools, but his method of bringing this about was to create a world of constant warfare. I suppose the definition of Outer Heaven could be interpreted differently. In fact, the war economy created by the Patriots could be said to have brought about Big Boss's dream of Outer Heaven. I guess with the destruction of the AIs, his ultimate goal was accomplished, but the concept of Outer Heaven is not what brought it about. The article does need rewording, I agree with that, but I can see where the confucion would stem from. --Bluerock 18:47, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::Thank you, Bluerock. However, if Big Boss' dream of Outer Heaven was fulfilled with the Patriot's War Economy, then why does Liquid Ocelot, a combination of two of Big Boss' biggest admirers (okay, Liquid hated Big Boss, but you get the idea) try to stop the Patriots? It's because these soldiers were still being abused by world governments, something Big Boss wanted to stop. You can say he was inspired to do this when he heard of the Boss' experience with her being abused by the US government, and that he wished to create a "heaven" for people like her. You could say that's admirable, but it doesn't make him a hero (like I feel this article somewhat makes him out to be.) But that doesn't make him 100% evil either (like I sometimes make him out to be in response to people that DO call him a hero. lol) Also, Weedle, the reason he didn't pull a Coldman was because he didn't want to nuke the planet (though he does have nukes, in case he wishes to use them.) Oh, and Coldman's ultimate goal was deterrence and his idea of "peace"... that's not global chaos. -John- 15:03 June 17, 2010 (ETC) :::That's the biggest problem with the whole issue about his wanting global chaos, since the Patriots already fulfilled that dream with the War Economy, something that even Big Boss disapproved of. I know if I were him, and my dream involved global chaos, I'd actually approve of The Patriots implementing the War Economy almost psychotically. And besides, didn't Liquid Snake mention that he wanted to continue Big Boss's dream in order to further destroy Big Boss during his speech atop Metal Gear REX? That implies that his continuing Big Boss's dream was not because he actually wanted to help Big Boss in his goal in spirit as much as tarnish his memory even more. And regardless of whether Coldman wanted deterrence or not, He still did, in a way, cause global chaos (NORAD was in a panic, and several Nuclear Silos, including those in China, had trajectory data on them when the Chairman and Miller were mentioning that the world was at stake, indicating that China and any country that has Nukes also got the same ones as well, not to mention that he knew that Cuba was directly the target of a Nuclear Strike when he did it.). Most people would realize that that WOULD cause global chaos. Weedle McHairybug 19:18, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::The dream wasn't truly fulfilled, since the Patriots' world still abused its soldiers, but the concept behind constant global warfare was. Outer Heaven's aim was only partially achieved, I guess. With the Patriots still in power, it wasn't truly Outer Heaven, but sort of an analogue. That's my view anyway. I also agree about the portrayal of Big Boss as a true "hero" isn't really accurate. No one can agree with his methods, but he is a soldier, not a politician, and fighting is all he really knows. Similar to how Gray Fix put it, he always fought for what he believed in at least.--Bluerock 19:21, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :::::You could say that the Patriots twisted his vision for their own ends, as befits their nature. --Bluerock 19:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::::In a briefing tape (Paz's diary), Snake also hints that while he may not particularly care for Peace, and the only thing he knows is fighting, that doesn't mean that he holds grudges against those who do value peace, meaning he may be at least tolerant of those who enjoy Peace. Weedle McHairybug 19:39, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :Though it is equally possible that he may not have cared for those desiring peace.--Bluerock 19:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, like he's neutral to peace-lovers. Neither liking them nor hating them. They're just there in his mind. Weedle McHairybug 19:47, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :I would also like to point out that Snake and Liquid Ocelot were NOT on the same side. Similar to Big Boss, Liquid Ocelot wanted global chaos (he brings this up before he dies, and before that, said that the way he believed the events went out was "precisely how he wanted things to end!" In MGS1, Ocelot even mentions how he believes there isn't enough "tension" in the world, and also how Liquid is "the one man that can make my dream a reality" after a few torture sessions.) I interpret FOXALIVE as just Liquid's backup plan. He believed his plan would have worked regardless if he launched the nuke or if Snake uploaded FOXALIVE (because he believed it would completely wipe out the Patriots, without keeping any of the vital lifelines of society intact.) This would explain why Liquid Ocelot tried to kill Snake so many times; he didn't need him. -John-, June 20, 17:23 (ETC) ::It does make sense for FOXALIVE to be a backup plan, seeing as he would achieve his aim regardless of whether he won or lost. But he did have a lot of easy opportunities to take out Snake, (and even destroy the Missouri, since he could just have had the RAYs slice its hull up), which seems to indicate that he did need the virus to be uploaded. Perhaps it was a better gamble, than launching the nuke? --Bluerock 12:25, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :Liquid could have killed Snake when strapped to the torture device in MGS1. He then later tried to bomb the **** (not sure if we're aloud to swear here) out of him with the Hind-D. Then at the end, Liquid was all like "lol i set u up." Similar thing here. Liquid Ocelot could have killed Snake at the end of Act 3. Then he tried to CRUSH SNAKE WITH OUTER HAVEN! Then at the end, he's all like "lol this is how i wanted everything to go down." Now, don't tell me FOXHOUND didn't give Snake everything they had to kill Snake, or that Liquid was purposefully missing in the Hind-D so Snake could beat him. But even then, there's a big difference between missing shots and CRUSHING SOMEONE HEAD ON WITH AN GIANT SHIP! Had it not been for Raiden stopping Outer Haven long enough for the Missouri to catch up, Snake would have been a "snake-sandwich" (lolcwatididthar?) The reason they didn't fire back at the Missouri at the time was because they needed to catch up to JD and it was all a waste of time. One of those "I'll get you next time" James Bond moments. That, or the simple explanation; it's better for story development. -John- 12:24, June 21, 2010 (ETC) :::Has it ever occured to you that Liquid Ocelot may have anticipated that Raiden may have been on the island and nearby, so he was trying to ram Snake with the ship knowing full well that Raiden would stop it? I mean, the whole reviving Big Boss issue was both his own and EVA's plan, even IF he hid the whole Liquid being fake part from EVA. Knowing this, then he'd also know that Raiden was briefly under her employ to rescue Big Boss's body, and I'm pretty sure that Vamp would have told Ocelot about his confrontation with Raiden, seeing how that would have been a vitally important detail. Assuming that the whole issue with Raiden and Crying Wolf picture is in Rising as well... :::Anyways, he may have been intending to ram Snake down, and yet not intending to do so at the same time, you know? Besides, he could have just charged at the Missouri when firing the warning shot and rammed it, thus both destroying the Missouri and keeping enough time to get to JD when it hits prodigy. If Bluerock or you have a better explaination, I'll let you. Weedle McHairybug 16:58, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :I think it's just for dramatic effect in terms of the story, in both MGS1 and MGS4. If Liquid isn't seen to actively want to destroy Snake, then we as the audience will catch on that something isn't quite right. As to how the inconsistency is explained in canon is anyone's guess really. :As for MGS1, maybe FOXHOUND did give Snake everything they had, and Liquid was confident he would succeed regardless, given that he believed Snake to be a "superior" clone of Big Boss. But that's just speculation. His plan to have him activate REX was definitely in motion by the time he encountered Raven in the tank (Raven: "Well Boss, I hope you are happy. He got the card." // Liquid: "We'll play with him a little longer.") Optional Codec conversations also reveal he had little respect for the abilities of some of his comrades, after they are defated by Snake (while disguised as Miller). --Bluerock 17:34, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :::We're probably thinking too deeply about this. In MGS4, the most simplest explanation would be that Liquid did indeed want Snake dead (as befits Liquid Snake's personality) and thus wasn't relying on Snake specifically being the one to upload the virus. The plan probably didn't rely on Solid Snake's survival. --Bluerock 17:47, June 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yeah, for all we know, he might have anticipated that Raiden would have been the one to try and upload the virus, if not upload the virus itself. Weedle McHairybug 17:53, June 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::Okay, so we agree; the plan would have worked either way (had it not been for Naomi and Sunny messing with FOXALIVE to keep the vital lifelines of society intact) and Liquid Ocelot was trying to kill Snake for the entire game? Good. Glad my interpretation of the story fits. -John- 14:25, June 21, 2010 (ETC) :::::Well, maybe. Although I'd argue that he knew about Naomi and Sunny making the virus (as Big Boss implies in his speech that Naomi, EVA, and Ocelot came up with that FOXALIVE virus factor, and pretty much everything else or mostly everything else in their grand plan, depending on whether Ocelot faking possession was indeed thought up by the others or not, together.). Plus, why would Liquid Ocelot allow Naomi to "defect" to Philantropy, defect back to Liquid Ocelot, if it wasn't to exploit any weaknesses to Philantropy? Heck, Big Boss didn't even mention that their plan was even to cause global chaos, just to revive Big Boss. You'd think he'd mention that given his reveal all speech. Weedle McHairybug 18:39, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :Although he allowed Naomi to temporarily defect, in order to get Philanthropy to help complete the virus, I don't believe he foresaw the modifications being made by Sunny. --Bluerock 19:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm pretty sure that he at least has an idea that Sunny may have something to do with machines, as he seemed to know that Sunny was being held captive by the Patriots (as he knew about Olga's actual affiliation and admits to using her). Another thing, wasn't it also implied that the reason why Sunny was capable of high-prodigy programming and machine-related knowledge was because she was raised by The Patriots when they were run by AIs? Hal did mention that Sunny spent a lot of time with computers as they were the closest thing to a family she had when explaining about Sunny to Naomi. Weedle McHairybug 19:21, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :No, he and Naomi originally intended to have Otacon help finish it, knowing that he's a genius at computer programming. Liquid Ocelot is never implied to have any knowledge of Sunny. --Bluerock 20:41, June 21, 2010 (UTC) ::He did seem to know that Olga was recruited by the Patriots into being the Cyborg Ninja in the climax to MGS2, and she did state that they recruited her by holding her child hostage... Weedle McHairybug 20:46, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :I meant during his insurrection. It was Naomi who had Sunny help with the virus after realizing how gifted she was. There was no indication that Liquid knew of Sunny's skills. --Bluerock 20:52, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :Liquid Ocelot probably wanted them to rely on the virus as the way to defeat him, so they wouldn't even bother looking for another way to destroy GW. That's why he allowed Naomi to "defect" to Snake and Otacon's group and "rejoin" him. His intentions were to have Otacon complete the virus. -John- 20:21, June 21, 2010 (ETC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luoq4Zx41uc Heh. Turns out Liquid Ocelot DID try to kill Snake at the end of Act 3! Go to 0:39 of the video. Snake jumped into the fire to save Big Mamma, Liquid pulls out a gun, says "So long, Snake!", shoots, misses (but he didn't know that), but Snake fell behind the fire (where Liquid can't see him) so Liquid thought he was dead. -John- 20:45, June 25, 2010 (ETC) ::Wouldn't Liquid Ocelot at least ACT a bit surprised that Solid Snake survived that earlier assassination attempt when they next encounter each other if he truly intended to kill him? The way he reacted when he encountered him just before the REX and RAY battle indicated that he didn't seem shocked at all that Solid Snake survived. I know I would be if I thought he died from the shot. Weedle McHairybug 01:01, June 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Well, it looked more like he was always intending to shoot the biomort, seeing as he hit it right in the head, effectively destroying the Patriots' icon for good. The words "So long, Snake," doesn't really prove that he intended to kill Solid Snake at that point, he was possibly just wishing his brother farewell, seeing as he had everything he needed to carry out his plan. Either that, or was literally referring to the biomort i.e. Naked Snake OR Solidus Snake. --Bluerock 07:16, June 26, 2010 (UTC) : Okay, im pretty sure that Big Boss's Dream and Outer Heaven was a soldiers paradise, not total destruction, they only made a metal gear to ensure nobody messes with their paradise, a protection policy if you will, and if Big Boss wanted world chaos, then why not, rather than make a metal gear, just construct a nuke or two and fire at random continents? - Dirty Duck : Big Boss's dream was the exact opposite of the Patritos, absolute freedom. His dream was never accomplished. At the end of MGS 4 he even admits that he was wrong and he then knew what he needed to do. Also don't forget his little speech in Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. He told snake he would start fires, extiquish the flames, and rescue the ones he could to throw them back into the flames. He wanted a world of anarchy. Liquid even said "the world will go back to the wild west" after snake destroyed the AI. There are many more references to his ideals and dream in every game about his vision of a world of anarchy. : ::First off, the article no longer says the dream was actually accomplished, just that Liquid Ocelot belived it to have been so. Second of all, assuming what Drebin said about not everything will be lollipops after FOXALIVE is true, then even with FOXALIVE, a war apocalypse is still likely to happen. Third of all, Coldman by actually activating Peace Walker caused far more world chaos than Big Boss did, and considering the fact that Zanzibar Land didn't even launch a nuke from D even once, even when its fully capable of doing so, having been completed as well as having full operability and a full stockpile of nukes and all, that would be saying something. I mean, at least when Liquid was planning on carrying out world chaos by, I dunno, actually planning to launch a nuke at a target, he broadcasted it and it resulted in Snake being sent by the Pentagon to supposedly diffuse it. In Zanzibar Land, the only reason Snake was even sent to Zanzibar Land was because of a kidnapped biologist, and they didn't even mention anything about Metal Gear being present, making it likely that they don't even know they had it. Heck, even the Patriots themselves were far closer to achieving global chaos, seeing how they had a hand in creating REX, which was to launch a stealth nuclear weapon, and I doubt that's supposed to actually maintain nuclear deterrence, since the point of nuclear deterrence is not firing at a target without the possibility of them firing back. Since its stealth, and thus virtually untraceable, they wouldn't have any risk of being retaliated against, meaning the Patriots will probably nuke any country they don't like and get away with it. Heck, maybe even nuke their own country and frame it on another. Weedle McHairybug 11:07, December 11, 2011 (UTC) : Well ofcourse Coldman cause more world chaos than what Big Boss did cause that would mean Big Boss succeeded. Big Boss was never in a spot to launch a nuke cuz he would of been easily wiped out by possibly everyother nation. He didn't have the man power right then to fight a global war. As for the Patriots causing chaos you have to remember it was organized chaos. Patriots were in total control of it. Big Boss wanted soldiers to have free will which was the exact opposite of what SOP provided for soldiers. Also this wasn;t the exact same Patriots and Big Boss was going up against. That was Zero not the AI's that throught the world into a global confict and the war economy. I can keep going but Big Boss wanted a world of Anarchy while the Patriots wanted complete control. They were both the exact opposite of eachother. At the end of MGS 4 Big Boss realizes that The Boss's will was to have the world somewhere in between both philosophies, to keep the world the way it is.BlueCat71 18:49, December 11, 2011 (UTC) : ::I have a huge problem with that interpretation of The Boss's will in the ending, actually. So, basically, what she's saying is that we should forget about civil rights, forget about America ever existing either its discovery or its formation as an independent nation, forget about Jesus sacrificing himself to save us from our sins, forget about the founding of Israel, forget pretty much every world-changing event, good or bad, on this planet, or heck, even the creation of existance itself? Have existance and time never even exist to begin with? That's the only way that the whole "keep things the same" element could ever be fully realized. Heck, Solid Snake even broke that philosophy with Philanthropy, often changing the world by ridding it of Metal Gear. The Boss's will, or at least that interpretation, is not only a difficult goal to achieve, but a downright impossible one to achieve. The closest we're ever going to get to actually fulfilling that will is if we went back in time and essentially destroyed the mere bonds of existance before it could truly be created. I've never really been favorable with balanced rules, anyways, seeing how the closest we had to people running things with "balance" were the Greek and Roman Pantheon and pretty much any ruler prior to the magna carta, who more often than not had people suffer the consequences of law breaking, yet get away with any law breaking they committed themselves due to their position or divine status. My viewpoint is that either absolutely everyone, even the ones in power and/or those who create the laws, follow through with them in absolute terror, or no rules, no powers ever exist. Weedle McHairybug 19:49, December 11, 2011 (UTC) : You took that "keep the world the way it is" to a whole new level. Change is the way the world is thats not what they are trying to prevent with that saying. Forcing change like the Patriots and Big Boss is what it means. BlueCat71 22:59, December 11, 2011 (UTC) : :::Change can only come through force, actually. I mean, do you honestly think the universe would have willed itself into existance of its own free will had some higher power not forced it into existence via something like the Big Bang? Besides which, there were a heck of a lot of changes that were through force, such as the American Revolution, the end of Slavery, the civil rights movement, the creation of the Magna Carta, the French Revolution, the Crusades, both on the Muslims (the direct aggressors) and the Christians (the ones defending themselves) end, the fall of the Roman Empire, the fall of Communism, the various World Wars, lots of things were essentially forced changes throughout history. Heck, The Boss herself already broke that thing she used as her final will by infiltrating Tselinoyarsk and trying to steal the Legacy from Volgin, itself a forced change, and then blowing up Tselinoyarsk, which is even more of a forced change. Heck, destroying Metal Gears throughout the world and thus also ending up commiting acts of terrorism is in itself a forced change. Change without force cannot exist. Sure, you might inflict change with little force, but it still requires force. Weedle McHairybug 23:46, December 11, 2011 (UTC) ::Weedle, I think you are taking the wording WAY too literally. It could be interpreted as letting the world go about its own course, working towards a better future, without attempting to force one's own views upon it. After all, Philanthropy's own motto in MGS4 is "to let the world be." If this topic is to be discussed further, I suggest it be moved to a forum, since the original issue with this specific article was already resolved. --Bluerock 13:07, December 12, 2011 (UTC) ::::I actually did make a forum topic regarding that aspect a while back. So far, only one user besides myself actually posted in it. Shame I didn't think of ithat sooner. Weedle McHairybug 13:51, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Raven? ::Okay.. wtf? Vulcan Raven wasn't part of Outer Heaven was he?? Zachariah Zuan 20:23, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Oh, he was, all right. Naomi Hunter confirmed as much when she explains Vulcan Raven's history. Weedle McHairybug 20:32, August 5, 2010 (UTC) : any ref? cause i'm major curious as to where this came from I didn't see it on Ravens page so I figured it was false Zachariah Zuan 21:04, August 5, 2010 (UTC) : :When you fight Vulcan Raven, contact either Naomi Hunter or Roy Campbell. Naomi will explain Vulcan Raven's history to Snake, and will mention that he worked at Outer Heaven (or as she put it, "those rent-a-war bastards at Outer Heaven, Inc.). Weedle McHairybug 21:15, August 5, 2010 (UTC) Members At the moment, this article is describing the concept of Outer Heaven, not simply the South African state in the 1990s. Therefore, members of MSF and Zanzibar Land could be considered members of Big Boss's Outer Heaven philosophy. A nation is a people, not simply the land which they occupy. If an article specifically concerned with the South African state is necessary, then I suggest we reduce the info on this page to brief summaries, and then move the bulk of the 1990s info to an article named "Outer Heaven (South Africa)," or something similar. Otherwise, we'll just be repeating info on MSF and Zanzibar Land here. --Bluerock 17:52, August 24, 2010 (UTC) I see a bigger picture now Ok, I know that I am kindof a noob when it comes to the historicity of the mgs series......But I just have to comment:I got to thinking........ the Patriots were simply trying to play the role of God. controlling, or atleast trying to control the world in its entirety, and all living things that live in it. after a long time of reflecting and pondering, ( also after studying the history of mgs for awhile) I speculate that Hideo Kojima is portraying deep within this epic saga, filled with action and suspense, a subliminal message that says *the ultimate enemy is he, or she who assumes all power*; in other words, God. (and forgive the misprint of the quotation marks. this piece of shit laptop has both shift keys not working properly) I may sound waaaaayyy off, but seriously, I just cant help but come to that conclusion. This may sound ridiculous, but I think Hideo is Anti-God,lol........anyways, just sharing my OPINION after all.......hideo is a cunning mofo, I`ll give him that, haha.....Oh, and more thing, Hes obviously stating the fact that the government sucks balls, and its true, haha.... What genius. But I cant condone his Anti-Godness, cause I`m christian :S. Well I think you have a point but I wouldn't call Kojima's stance anti god.It 's more like Anti-religious and it's against modern religious leaders and not god himself.In fact I think that kojima pays a lot of respect in the traditional Japanese religion. And I condene his anti Godness because I'm an atheist/nihilist. girousis 09:41, April 28, 2011 (UTC) Outer Heaven mercenaries I do remember the MGS4 database including mug shots of all the bosses of the first Metal Gear. Would they be a good addition to the site, or even their respective entries?Greed-sama 02:50, April 2, 2012 (UTC) :They would indeed, if you can get hold of them. I haven't had much luck finding those images. --Bluerock 05:47, April 2, 2012 (UTC) ::Yep. Go ahead and look for them since that would make additions to the site. Also, if you could rip them from the database itself, like how Bluerock did it with some of the images on the site from MGS3, MGS2, MPW, etc., That would also work perfectly. Weedle McHairybug 10:34, April 2, 2012 (UTC) In Portable Ops In '' Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops '' Big Boss responds to Gene: You can add a mention of this on this page?--Spinoziano (talk) 14:43, January 6, 2016 (UTC) :It's already mentioned here. --Bluerock (talk) 15:05, January 6, 2016 (UTC)